Ignite Your PowHER

Big Love Fierce Juju

March 31, 2021 Dr. Shieva Ghofrany Season 1 Episode 17
Ignite Your PowHER
Big Love Fierce Juju
Show Notes Transcript


Shieva Ghofrany,MD OBGYN (@biglovefiercejuju) • Instagram photos and videos

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Jennifer Roelands  0:03 
Welcome to ignite your power podcast. I'm so glad you're here. My name is Dr. Jenn, have you ever wanted to follow a dream? Or were too scared to do so? Do you have that nagging voice inside, or you're meant for something bigger, better,

Jennifer Roelands,  0:19 
more exciting. I am here for you. I believe in women helping women is the most powerful force in the universe. I came from an Italian family where women were not supposed to get an education. But yet I listened to that nagging voice inside of me. And now I'm an OB GYN turned health coach. And I'm here to support, educate and empower you. On this podcast, we'll talk about health, relationships, money, mommy fails, you name it. I'll bring badass women experts to inspire you, to empower you to help you find that voice inside and define your power.

So Dr. Shieva Ghofrany is an amazing woman who has an amazing story to tell really, I mean, you're an inspiration to women and to health professionals. And we are so honored to have you today to talk about it. You have your bachelor's degree that you got  at Georgetown you did your medical school in Israel. And then your residency at Stanford in Connecticut, and you are a full time ob gyn just like myself delivering babies  and loving it all the time. And then also the founder of a new organization called a tribe called v. And then so we're just going to kind of have a nice little conversation and talk about the loveliness that is you. So will you tell us a little bit of about you?

Shieva Ghofrany  1:50 
22, almost 29 years, I finished medical school in 1999. And, yeah, I mean, it's funny, because now, you know, I look and I think I'm still so young. How is it possible, I've been doing this for 22 years, I feel like playing 22 years sounds like such a veteran. And it's funny that you and I had just talked about being on social media and how different it is, as a physician and my parents are both retired doctors. This is very strange to them, right? I mean, they think it's fun, and they kind of like it. And my mom actually did a live with me the other day as a retired pediatrician. But this is not what they're used to right there. They were very warm and engaged with their patients. But they also were used to being a bit more formal. So to your point before, we are in a whole new era where doctors can be more accessible. And so this, to me is like a great platform, because the more of us as doctors, especially as ob gyn to get out there and talk openly about all of the things that women are anxious and nervous about, the better the population will be because women will understand their bodies, women will come to their doctor's appointments, understanding what to discuss. So those little 15 minute visits will be so much more impactful. So ultimately, I feel like if I can come on these platforms, or go on Instagram and talk openly, and you know, we've said for tribe called V, our motto is we want to increase your knowledge to decrease your anxiety. So the more I can do that, and as I said multiple times, it's fun for me. So it's a quid pro quo, I get to help the patients by talking to them, and they give me accolades. It's like, perfect. It's so much fun. There's, you know, to me, there's nothing better, right?

Jennifer Roelands  3:27 
Yeah. And really what I love most about you, that's how I connected with you to begin with was on Instagram was just the fact that you talk about these subjects that so many women have a very hard time talking to us in clinic, especially when they know they have 15 minutes to sort of say whatever they need to say. And so it's very difficult to have that conversation where they want to talk about STDs or they want to talk about perimenopause symptoms, or like vaginal dryness and things that are just not very comfortable. And it takes a while to kind of build up that conversation. And you're so open and you have these wonderful you know, dialogues about the subjects and I think it lets people hear it without feeling like they're like talking to you one on one and say like, I need this question answered for a friend. Yeah, so you get a chance to really do that. And I love that about you how open you are with that information. I think that's so needed. I think that most women feel a little bit nervous to talk about those subjects with their gynecologist

Shieva Ghofrany  4:23 
Well, it's funny you say that because I do think I mean, I've always said this that when people are like something, if something really embarrassing to tell you I always joke that I'm like, bring it on. I can't wait to hear something embarrassing, but 99% of the time whatever you think is embarrassing like you and I have heard it before is as gynecologist right. There's really nothing that's embarrassing to us. So, on one hand, I really want women to feel comfortable. On the other hand, I'm continuously surprised at how even with me even the women who've known me forever, even the women who hear me on Instagram or here on Facebook, they'll still be like to tell you something, and what they have to tell me is like their hemorrhoid or their vaginal discharge. Or something where I'm like, you get what we do every day, right? Like, this is what we're here to talk about macros to us. So I guess I'm saddened by the fact that women still have to feel so much. No shame or insecurity about what are completely normal bodily functions are common, I should say, not normal bodily functions, but common bodily functions. But I think the more we all talk about it, the better it's going to be.

Jennifer Roelands  5:23 
Yeah, I think you know, I've mentioned this before in a podcast episode is that it depends on where you are hearing this information? This so much of this is cultural, right? So much this is your background and your conversation you've had with your mom or your grandmother. And so some people don't even know they can ask their doctor these questions, because it may be that their grandma's like, No, no, we don't talk about that. We don't have that conversation. And so you know, if you have an Italian grandma like mine, she's like, No, we don't talk about that. You talk about having babies, that's what you do. So I think that, you know, bringing it up also lets people, women be aware of the fact that you really, it's okay to ask these questions.

Shieva Ghofrany  5:59 
Well, and it's funny, because if we, if, if they don't ask these questions, to be honest, I'm like, What else are we talking about? Like, the pap smear only takes that long, you know, every now and then I'll walk out of one of my patients rooms and my medical assistants like, that was awfully quick. What happened? Like, I don't know, she didn't have anything to ask me. Like, I was hoping I was like suggesting, but the patient's like, no, everything's okay. And I joked, like, if I had patients like that, I could see 60 patients a day, like as it is, I see 30. But I delve, if patients didn't have questions, it'd be easy. Like I actually, I really do jokingly wonder, like, what are other doctors talking about, if they're not talking about this stuff, like, maybe that's how they get out the door at five o'clock. So I do really urge women all joking aside that to be open, I mean, if you if you don't feel comfortable talking to your doctor about that, if you've dipped your toe and you haven't gotten a response, it doesn't mean your doctor is a jerk or doesn't have the knowledge. But it might just mean that you haven't gotten to that place of comfort with them. So give them a chance. But if they don't kind of give it back to you, then maybe you need to find a different doctor who has a different demeanor, right? There are enough, there are enough of us out there who are willing to talk openly, you know.

Jennifer Roelands  7:01 
Yeah. So that brings me to your your adventure here, the tribe called V. I'm gonna let you talk about this adventure.

Shieva Ghofrany  7:08 
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm so excited. And I feel not sad, but excited that in the next like, couple of years, my life as a practicing physician is going to change. Ultimately, I'm still going to practice and I'm still going to do what I do. I stopped taking new patients years ago, but just because it was so busy in the practice, and when I had ovarian cancer five years ago, almost, I thought I would work less, I ended up working more. And then I realized every day speaking to like 30 to 35 women a day became mentally and physically exhausting. And when my now business partner, Jenny Edwards came to me and said, I would like to have a baby, I'm gonna use my frozen eggs from when I was 35. At the time, she was 45. Now, and let's create a business based on all the things you already do on Instagram, you're already teaching women, let's create a pregnancy course, and a gynecology platform. So we now have a pregnancy membership, where women get an ebook that we wrote that kind of goes through like how many times Jen as a as a doctor, does the patient call you freaked out because she heard that there are cord Plexus cysts on the ultrasound, and she knew that his or she had a little bit of bleeding or spotting. So all of the things that women go through that make them anxious and nervous in the pregnancy, are reviewed preemptively in the book. And then through the pregnancy program, we do two to four lives like this a month where we discuss pregnancy issues. We do questions and answers. And and patients really enjoy it. I shouldn't say patients, they are members, because these people are not my patients. The members get to interact with each other and then we have pelvic floor physical therapists, and, you know, lactation consultants and people come on. So that's the pregnancy part of it. And now we filmed Jenny's entire pregnancy, she's birth her baby now. So we filmed 42 modules that went through everything with regard to like genetic testing, ultrasounds, preeclampsia, gestational diabetes, again, all of the topics that we can cover in a pregnancy core digital course that patients can access. And so it doesn't have to be taught through the lens of, you know, like a company that doesn't really know about birthing it was taught from the lens of the doctor and the patient. So that's why we call it my ob and ni. And then separately, we're going to be doing the gynecology platform soon where we'll talk about again, all of those things that you and I both know cause all the anxiety like HPV and herpes and vaginal dryness and stinky discharge and perimenopause and irregular bleeding and polyps. And again, all of those things that too, you and I are so common that we can talk about quickly and easily. And we know that they shouldn't cause so much anxiety but they do because women don't get to learn about them. I'm still amazed like every day when I try to review like someone's ovulation and let you know I do the calculation with a woman like what do you think you ovulate and even my most educated patients don't learn that. So that un platform will kind of review all that. So I'm excited because it still means I get to engage with women, but in a different way than on the one on one in my in my office and I'll still be again practicing Medicine, but less so in the office and more so kind of in this online platform, so I can reach a bigger audience and be a little bit more kind to myself in my own body and, you know, try to take care of myself in different ways. So it's really exciting. It's so much fun, and people have been really receptive to it. So it's been nice.

Jennifer Roelands  10:17 
Well, and you're going to be a gift to OB docs as well, because those questions, you know, if someone panics about the ultrasound, they go home, they talk to their parents,  their friends, and then their up all night just stressing out. I mean, physicians are busy, so we can't always call them back within, you know, an hour of opening. So you are a great resource for those OBS as well, who were like, hey, she referenced her book, she feels better about that discussion that we had about, you know, to vessel cord, or whatever the discussion is, and it means no, you know,

Shieva Ghofrany  10:49 
I'm glad you pointed that out, because I have patients who have like, watched my videos, right and have come in, and then afterwards said, Oh, my God, I was so worried about XYZ, but I saw your video, and I already know, ABC, and it actually saves me time in the office, I saw your video about cholestasis, my palms were itchy. But I already know what you're gonna say. And I know that I'm going to do that. And it's so so beneficial. So I really do want other physicians to look at this not as competition because again, I don't want their patients we're not to I'm not taking new patients, right, it is only meant to enhance all of our ability to really help our patients understand and help the doctors, we are stressed for time as doctors, right? Like we're tired, we are wanting to do our best, but we just don't always have the tools to do it. So if those of us who are still practicing can actually give information to our patients, and the patients at large throughout the country, I think it would be so helpful because I think a lot of the doctors who are writing books tend to not be practicing physicians, and your problem. So and I don't, I don't blame the doctors were practicing, we don't have time. And so the ones who end up writing the books are the ones who have more time to do it. So I think it is a unique case that, you know, it was written from the point of view of someone who's literally in practice all day every day, you know,

Jennifer Roelands
I think it's a beautiful thing. And same thing. I mean, I focus on GYN only on my health coaching business. And we talk about how to balance hormones without medication. So similar GYN topics, you're sort of talking about the traditional way that people can treat, you know, PCOS, like Metformin, and those kind of things. But then like in my health coaching business, we focus on diet, let's talk about lifestyle. So this all kind of weaves nicely together supporting each other and supporting each other's philosophy. Right?

Shieva Ghofrany  12:34 
Yeah, people more and more want that, right. They they get most people, there's obviously people on the fringe who only want Western or only want Eastern, but I think the majority of people want a little mix of both. And that's what makes the most sense. I mean, that's truly integrative medicine, right? That's what we should strive. Yeah,

Jennifer Roelands  12:50 
yeah, that's what I'm trying to bring their bring, you know, to my, my clients into my patients is that sort of integrated protocol. It's not all one size doesn't fit all for everyone. And so we got to make sure we give people options, and that's free for what you're doing. It's fantastic for women to have that second resource instead of panicking and setting the 17 emails to their provider that when

Shieva Ghofrany  13:11 
I Dr. Google things that are out of my field, I'm like, this is what happened. This is what we need to stop. We need to give people better information. So they don't go to Google. Yeah,

Jennifer roelands  13:19 
Exactly. Well, do you mind telling us a little bit about your story, your cancer survivor story? I mean, just it made you who you are, made you the wonderful, you know, inspiration and energy that you are. So if it's okay to share a little bit about your story.

Shieva Ghofrany  13:33 
It's okay. I'm obviously very open about it. Well, I'll go a couple steps back, which is I always joke that at the beginning of me becoming a doctor, I had had endometriosis probably from when I was a very young girl, but we didn't know it at the time. And then when I got to medical school, I actually had you're gonna be shocked when you hear this a 17 centimeter endometrioma 17 centimeters. So for those of you watching or listening 17 centimeters is like a large grapefruit like a cantaloupe. And I was in medical school I was having a lot of pain. I remember saying to my, my partner in my medical school group, I will never have kids I want a hysterectomy. I didn't even realize at the time that a hysterectomy only meant your uterus and not your ovaries and what I really needed was my ovary removed because it was huge and painful. And I had endometriosis in that ovary. And so that happened my that cyst was removed. I then during residency starting at age 32 had my first miscarriage. So I went through two miscarriages, a baby who was growth restricted because I was 250 pounds with hypertension. It was an unhealthy pregnancy, working 110 hours a week. Then four more miscarriages than a baby who's now 12 with a clubfoot. And then then I was done. Then I was like done six feet. I mean six pregnancies to babies. I'm never going to do that again. Every time I'd have a miscarriage. I would joke like, okay, God, this is your way of helping me relate to my patients. Now I know I can relate. I don't need to have these parents. Every thing, I get it, I can empathize. And then flash forward at age 40 got surprisingly pregnant with my now third baby, despite being a pretty good gynecologist who knew what control, I thought we were being careful, as I say, like, quote unquote, careful. And then at 46, I had painted one and I really thought it was just a new tree osis. And as it turns out, it was another endometrioma that had transformed into endometrioid ovarian cancer, which again, for anyone listening is rare than endometriosis turns into ovarian cancer. So I do not want people to be scared because I always rail against fear. But I do want people to be cognizant that if they have, as I say, pain, pressure or bloating that lasts more than two weeks, please, please, please go see your gynecologist and ask for an ultrasound. Because if we do not do more ultrasounds, which unfortunately we know are not screening tools and are not always covered by insurance. But it is the only way we're going to find any variant cancers. So we were very lucky because mine was found at stage two, which is not typical, you know, as a doctor, obviously, that most of them are found at stage three or four. And so I had a full staging hysterectomy, my ovaries removed everything. Unfortunately, my bladder had gotten perforated during the surgery. So I went back for a second surgery. And then through that, my incision from that surgery to repair my bladder actually opened, and I had to have a wound vacuum. And I and honestly through the entire thing. It was a crazy time, it was obviously stressful and painful. But it also really highlighted to me the privilege I had, that I was a physician that I knew what to do that I knew the doctors that were involved, and I knew that they cared for me and I knew that they were doing the right thing. And I didn't have to question their motives. And I didn't have to question their lack of caring, like there was so much about it, that was helpful to my psyche. And that really helped me understand how much more how important important it is for patients to feel a sense of faith in their provider. Because if we don't like I say all the time to my patients, if I send you to a surgeon and you don't, you don't feel good about them, you need to tell me because I walked into my surgery, knowing that my surgeon was amazing, and that she loved and cared about me. And if I didn't feel that way, when I had the complication I had, it would have been very easy for me to kind of question like, why did that happen? Was she not taking care of me, and I noticed that she did and that helped my healing. So I think it's really important for doctors and patients to not overlook the power of a good relationship. And I do think that actually doctors tend to overlook that sometimes I think doctors have a very, you know, dogmatic paternalistic view of like, I'm the doctor, it's what I say. And I think they really, they they forget the fact that not only does it breed a just a kinder, gentler world, but they've shown that through data now, a one c levels of patients are elevated in those situations where they feel that their endocrinologist has more empathy and cares about their care. So they're showing that the physiological response is better. So that really confirmed I think, what I already felt, I mean, I already practiced that way. But it again, helped just drive that point home. So since then, I mean, I always joke now, like, I got street cred, like when a patient says to me, I've got pain. And I say, listen, it's likely nothing. But let's check it out. And then as you know, patients will say things like, well, but don't you just think it's this, don't you think it's that they kind of try to backtrack out of why they don't have to do whatever tests I've suggested. I'm always like, Listen, I think it's probably all of those things. I think your pain is probably benign, but I don't know that for a fact. And given what I went through, I will be damned if I if I let anyone get to stage three or four of anything. If I can help it right now, I know that that means we have to be hyper vigilant. But I don't want anyone to be paranoid. I want everyone to be super proactive about it. And it really takes a lot of teaching. It takes it made means that women need to understand their bodies more and have the confidence in their body to know what's normal, what's abnormal, even if something is abnormal? Why is it not dreadfully abnormal? Where they should be scared? Why is it abnormal enough that they should get it checked out. But that probably the end result won't be something really horrible. You know, there's so much at play. And I think that that's where these platforms can really help because the more that women understand it doesn't become this far off distant thing where she hears the word cancer and thinks, oh my god, I'm gonna die the minute I hear that, you know,

Jennifer Roelands  19:18 
yeah, you have to listen to your own body. That's it. You showed up at the office for a reason you felt like something was wrong, you felt like something is not you know, not not something's going on. And so whenever a patient says to me, Well, do you really think I'm like, well, you came here so something told you that something's not right. So you know, I think you have to listen to your body and you know you better than I know you so you're gonna have to tell me if if this is something that's really bothering you, let's let's do it. Let's let's work up and figure out if there's an issue but you were totally right. When you were the patient, your perspective changes a lot. And I've been through that with autoimmune issues. I've been through that with infertility and having Physicians not nearly what that's the journey you have been through, I have not in any way saying that's close, but having been sort of ignored by physicians who said, Oh, your thyroids fine, I'm sure you get pregnant at some point and you know, crying in the bathroom, like, how am I taking care of all these ob patients that I can't figure out how to get pregnant and all of those things. And finally, finding someone who understood like that you're, you know, having thyroid antibodies that are in the 1000s probably means there's something wrong with your thyroid. And, you know, not getting pregnant kind of knowing what to do. And it's not happening for three years, like something's probably going on. So yeah, but it really, really makes you appreciate what your patients say to you. Because you know, the frustration and you know, the feeling of someone not listening to you or not getting you or feeling like there's nobody else going through what you're going through. And it does really change how you are as a physician, and as a mom and a human being really

Shieva Ghofrany  20:56 
well, and I think more of us who talk about it openly. Like I mean, I sound so corny to be like, I'm so glad I had ovarian cancer. But I'm so glad because I do think that the running the real and most women's mind is that, you know that cancer is death. That's it cancer, I'm going to die. And I think the more of us who have something like you had fertility issues, and now look, you have four kids, right? I had six, I got three kids, like I had a very kids, I'm still kicking. So I think the more of us who show, we are still okay, despite what happened, the more we can demystify the eggs. And that doesn't mean we should ignore our issues. That means we should be even more proactive about finding our issues early so that we can intervene so that we can fix them. And if we do it calmly, without stimulating too much fear, then it's going to be healthier for everybody.

Jennifer roelands  21:45 
Since you're so open about talking and talking about things on Instagram and having these great, by the way, you should watch her Instagram lives. They're amazing. What are your favorite things to talk about? Like? What are the things that just make that you can just basically they have to literally say you got to stop talking woman?

Shieva Ghofrany  22:05 
You know what I joke sometimes when people like, do you have an opinion about blah, blah, blah, I'm like, I get an opinion pretty much about everything. But the common ones I really I love talking about what the general is I love talking about things that I think are so misunderstood and disproportionately cause fear and anxiety and sadness for women. So that would mean HPV herpes. And then the fear surrounding things like abnormal pap smears abnormal mammograms, not knowing about vaginal atrophy and the fact that estrogen is so impactful. Right? So those are big ones, and then the P word, perimenopause. So those are ones that I feel like I could talk about those till I'm blue in the face. And actually, every time I do talk about them, I think to myself, this person must be sick of hearing me say this, because I say it all the time. So whenever I have someone who seems to actually be a new audience, I'm like, they haven't heard me talk about it. I haven't reached everyone yet. So I'm gonna keep talking about it. Because those things you and I know are just they're so common. There's so every day like to you and either no big deal. But God, they don't they cause such a disproportionate amount of anxiety, right? Like the women who sit there wide eyed, like, Are you telling me that I could be in perimenopause when I'm 44? And I'm like, Yeah, you're completely impairment. Like, that's not a big deal. You were ill are no big deal. So I think again, it's just in their defense is because they just have never been taught the basics. And we really need to do it. We can do it. We can do it as ob gyn, right?

Jennifer roelands  23:33 
Well, and the information is so confusing. I mean, I know when I sit down to talk to people about hormone therapy, it's very confusing. There's so much information out there. It's like you know, bioidentical versus traditional things versus plant based stuff. It's just so much information and mostly is because us obs have gotten so scared of hormones and talking about it. Tt's like we're trained in this, we should actually be talking about this. It's okay. If they don't get it from us. They're gonna get it from them or

Shieva Ghofrany  24:06 
they're gonna get from the other people who are doing a better job than we are about commercializing it, right?

Jennifer roelands  24:11 
Yep. Yep. Are you going to have that kind of information on your platform, your GYN platform a tribe called V.

Shieva Ghofrany  24:16 
I do it on on Instagram. Actually, I just talked today I had an Instagram Live with someone who has publicly disclosed that I'm her doctor. So we did like an impromptu Instagram Live where we really went through like a case study. She's, you know, she had a hysterectomy. Couple years ago. She's hot flashes, night sweats, all the things. We talked about all the different things she could do. But yeah, that's all the stuff that we'll talk about. And it's probably going to be like little mini courses that people can purchase that won't be very expensive. And then there's also going to be a little bit of a membership component for people who want more access to lives and things like that, because I do think I think people like watching the videos on their own, but I do think people still like to interact with someone who has more time than their actual doctor sometimes, right like I have more time on Instagram, sometimes I do in my office during the waking hours in my office, right? Because I can I can speak to hundreds of people on Instagram, whereas in my office, I can only see 30 women a day, right? I'm limited by that amount, right?

Jennifer roelands  25:11 
Yeah, yeah. And do you typically talk to women about bioidentical hormones? Or what is your sort of philosophy on the perimenopause since you brought it up?

Shieva Ghofrany  25:20 
Well, I talked about all four, I mean, I talked about the whole gamut, I say that you can do very, very Eastern, like you can do herbs, you can do acupuncture, those have been found to be impactful, you can raise your vitamin D levels, which actually has helped me so much with my hot flashes, getting my D between 50. And 70, has been super impactful, changing my caffeine, alcohol and sugar, which is incredibly hard it but when I do it, I do better with my hot flashes. And then I talk about bioidenticals versus pharmaceutical versus pharmaceutical bio identical, right. So I think that we really do have to differentiate between the bioidenticals from the compounders, versus the bioidenticals, from the regular pharmacy, and I allow my patients to get bioidenticals from the compounders. But I do dissuade them a little bit, because they're paying more for them. They're not as you and I know, not as regulated. And so I find that if they can get some of the bioidenticals that I can write for at the pharmacy and start out with those, they tend to actually do really well on them. I think just really educating them on what the risks are and how they're going to help. I think the problem, like you said, is we've shied away from it so much that then the people who charge a lot of money, sell a lot of these products, and kind of tout themselves as the holy grail of like the fountain of youth, unfortunately, lead a lot of women astray, with, you know, burning them out with high doses of testosterone and things like that. And that's, that's a problem. And we need to do better about educating women so that we can help protect them, you know,

Jennifer Roelands  26:38 
yeah, I think that's really, really important. Because it's so important for people to know that we're coming from the angle of science backed information, it's not, you know, I'm assuming you're referring to pellet therapy, that time his most drone that you know, doesn't have as much science behind it. And so you got to be careful that you're not putting yourself at higher danger and higher risk without knowing that information. Because we're a lot of us, like myself and you who are okay with hormones.

let's make sure we get them on the right thing and make sure that they and like you said before, always see a provider that you're comfortable if they if someone's not comfortable with that, go see somebody else. I'm okay when other people go see somebody else, because the personality doesn't mesh with me. And that's totally fine. Like, you should find the one that that meshes. Yeah, yeah, yep. So when you talk about your platform ob and me, where can people find you or the information that they can? See, I know that Instagram we've talked about a few times, but where can they find information?

Shieva Ghofrany
Instagram page is big love fierce juju. Our other business is tribe called V and tribe called v.com. So if you go to tribe called v.com, you can see all the information and what we already have up and running, which is the ob and me pregnancy program. And pretty soon the pregnancy video series is going to come up and then the gynecology platform will be coming soon in the next couple of months that we're like working on in between our day and night jobs that we're actually doing. And so those are the things that we have coming down the pike. And then I have a couple of fun collaborations, there's a company called bodily that does postpartum kits that are really interesting, like, they do, you know, the mesh underwear and everything. And they are really heavy in content. And so they came to me to ask me to help them with some of their content. So I'm going to be helping kind of just edit a lot of the stuff. So they really care about educating women just as much as their products are being sold. So that's actually really synergistic with what we're doing. So that's a nice cart.

Jennifer Roelands
Yeah, do you mind telling us that origin behind big love fierce Juju?

Shieva Ghofrany

It basically I know, and thank you so much for having me on. And then I'm going to have to go after, you know, I just want you to tell us because I know

Shieva Ghofrany  28:45 
when I was going through chemo, one of my patients who was also going through breast cancer, actually, at the time, she I had I had sent her a text to say like, I'm just thinking about you. And I say, I was as a writing it. I said, I didn't want to write like, I'm sorry, because I felt like when people say I'm sorry, it feels so distancing and like, they're, they're almost like looking down like I'm sorry that you are going through this. And I really knew what she was going through. And so I said, I don't want to say I'm sorry, I just want to say that I'm sending you my big love. And so somehow I felt like that's not enough. I'm gonna send you and I said and my fierce Juju. And Juju to me is like the karma the like, you know, as you can see, I like all my little talismans like my evil eye and things like that. And and all of a sudden when I said it, I was like, look that big love yours choose you and then it just stuck. And unfortunately because I have so many patients who go through so many things between like miscarriages or God forbid, fetal demise or cancer, there's I feel like there's always someone that I need to be sending my love and Juju to. So that's it. That's why it's stuck. Yeah.

Jennifer Roelands  29:47 
Wow, that episode one five so quick. If you like this podcast, please subscribe and leave me a rating on whatever platform that you are listening on. If it's Google or Apple Spotify, I heart whichever platform I would love to hear from you. I'm always trying to bring new topics and new experts on so I would love to hear if you have a particular topic that you want to leave me a message. So if you want to hear more about my business or more about women's holistic options, please check me out at https://www.wellwomanmd.com
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